Hub Challenge - Why It Ruined the HubPages Community
77The Hub Challenge - 100 hubs in 30 days. How could something that started out so positively and with so much energy, end with a sputter, a cough, and more than a few sad goodbyes.
It wasn't until I read Robert Cialdini's brilliant book, Influence, that I began to understand some of the psychological underpinnings that caused a malaise, or even depression to descend upon the HubPages community after the Hub Challenge.
Please note that the purpose of this hub to not to slander, blame, or accuse anyone of appropriate or inappropriate behavior, but is simply a psychological analysis of what went wrong, and how we can avoid making the same mistakes in the future.
HubPages Community
There are a large variety of people who join HubPages from all over the world. Many of us share very different backgrounds, and have different HubPages goals.
Some of us are focused on the art of writing, or on self-expression, while others may only be interested in making money. Some are here for humor, others want to share the hardship of their lives. Some are looking for friends and others may be looking for debate. Indeed it would be impossible to list all of the reasons why someone chooses to join this fun and vibrant community that we call HubPages.
Each hubber is unique in the set of circumstances that drew him or her to not only sign-up to HubPages but also become an active member of its community.
One of the things that truly struck me when I first joined HubPages was how active the community was, and how helpful members were in answering questions, as well as giving personal and professional support. Some of them even directed traffic to my hubs.
It always seemed more than a bit miraculous that individual members with such different backgrounds, cultures, and experiences could come together in this one place and create so much harmony and community spirit.
The strength and uniqueness of the HubPages community lies in the bonds and friendships formed by its members, and in particular by those active members who are always ready to encourage and lend a helping hand.
Robert Cialdini
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Hub Challenge - The Results
1. The Hub Challenge divided the HubPages community.
Very early on, there was a strong social push towards joining the Hub Challenge. This is the result of what Cialdini calls social proof.
It is human nature to look to others to determine the best course of action for ourselves. If we look outside and see people wearing shorts, we assume that the weather is warm and will switch to wearing shorts. If we see cars ahead start to change lanes, we will try to change lanes as well, in anticipation of an upcoming road block or accident.
The same was true of the Hub Challenge. Social proof was strong and everyone, including me, got caught up in the Hub Challenge excitement. Many hubbers threw caution to the wind and boarded the Hub Challenge ship. While I did not join, I certainly participated in the initial chats about it and lived vicariously through others.
It must be hot outside because everyone else is wearing shorts.
Straight away, the Hub Challenge created a division in the previously united HubPages community. Suddenly, there were the hubbers who joined the Hub Challenge and the hubbers who did not join the Hub Challenge. Us and them.
Everybody who was anybody started talking about the Hub Challenge and suddenly it was all anyone could talk about. There was great social pressure to join because either you were on the ship or you were left behind - with no friends, no traffic, and no Google AdSense money.
The few that spoke up against the Hub Challenge ship were quickly tarred, feathered, and made to walk the plank. They were Scrooge, Grinch, and Benedict Arnold, all rolled into one, for even daring to suggest that the Hub Challenge may not be the best idea in the World.
2. The Hub Challenge created a commitment trap to writing.
Some hoped that things would calm down and get better once the competition started, but instead, the situation got worse. This was due to what Cialdini characterizes as commitment and consistency.
According to Cialdini, we like to act in a consistent way with the decisions we have made. Once we commit to a plan, we tend to stick to it, no matter the personal cost. This is because people who do not stick to their guns are often viewed as weak minded and untrustworthy. Social psychology studies show that once committed, people will go to great lengths to honor their commitments.
Therefore, those that committed to the Hub Challenge, were now under strong self-pressure to stay consistent with their writing commitments. Furthermore those commitments were made in public, which according to Cialdini, further strengthens the need for consistency.
Thus the Hub Challenge became a trap, forcing hubbers to generate hub, after hub, after hub. Writing was no longer a fun activity, but more of a dreary job. Everyone was too busy writing, and nobody had any time to read. Everyone was too busy writing, and nobody had any time to chat or maintain friendships. Everyone was tired, depressed, frustrated, and pissed-off.
But the Hub Challenge ship had sailed, and turning back was not an option. Consistency to commitment - the show must go on.
3. The Hub Challenge created an unhealthy competitive environment.
Another reason why the HubPages community is so strong and resilient, is because most hubbers genuinely like each other. A big part of this, I think, is due to a shared purpose as well as regular contact and cooperation. According to Cialdini, both these factors help us create positive bonds with each other.
We are naturally drawn to others who are like us, and at HubPages most of us at least share a passion for the written word. We may come from different countries, like different food, have different writing skills and experiences, but we all still share a love for writing or self-expression. That is why most of us are here - to share our work and ideas with other writers as well as to read what others have written.
This common purpose, as well as regular contact and cooperation, creates the strong sense of identity and community spirit that pervades HubPages.
The Hub Challenge, however, pushed contact and cooperation to the background because everyone was now too busy to read and chat. Instead, cooperation was replaced with competition. Instead of offering support to each other and reading each other's work, it now became a competition of seeing who can write the most hubs, get the most clicks, and earn the most money.
4. The Hub Challenge gave all the rewards to the internet marketers and stuck the rest of us with the bill.
The Hub Challenge was in fact the brain child of Courtney Tuttle, an internet marketer. Unlike many of the active participants in the HubPages community, his primary goal is to make money. He wanted to see how much money he could make from HubPages by writing one hundred, SEO driven, keyword focused hubs.
Personally, I think that this is a very interesting and creative challenge - if you are an internet marketer. Internet marketers are less interested in the HubPages community and more interested in spending their time making money. Chatting, helping people in the Forums, and reading other people's hubs are not what internet marketing is all about.
Instead, to be successful, you want to effectively utilize your time so that you derive the greatest monetary returns per unit of effort. In this scenario, it makes sense to write one hundred SEO focused hubs in thirty days. At the very least, you get to test out various keyword topics and see which ones work best. And if the Hub Challenge were even slightly successful, you could stand to earn some nice Google AdSense bucks.
The true winners of the Hub Challenge are these internet marketers. They got all the positives of HubPages without experiencing any of the negatives from the Hub Challenge.
The loser is the HubPages community, most of us little people. We are the ones who are primarily interested in writing, sharing ideas, and creating a spirit of cooperation, which the Hub Challenge has seriously impaired.
What about the people running HubPages?
Well, they win in the short term because the Hub Challenge has brought in some internet marketers who create hubs that are targeted for traffic, clicks, and money. In the long run, however, I think they lose.
Why?
They lose because what is special about HubPages, and what draws the majority of people to write on HubPages is the community and the cooperative spirit within it. This community spirit also creates a lot of membership loyalty.
Once this spirit is gone, there's little reason to stay on HubPages; I could just go anywhere and focus on writing to make a buck. In fact, I wouldn't want to focus all my efforts on any one writing site, because it is dangerous to put all my eggs in one basket.
What do you think of the Hub Challenge?
See results without votingThe Complainers and Malcontents
And yet, some of us still wonder, why are people so upset? Perhaps a better question to ask is why are people not more upset.
It is not surprising that some of us left as a result of all the social division and bad-will that was created by the Hub Challenge. Those that left, tried to voice some of these same thoughts, but were ignored. I suppose there are some who cannot bear the thought of anyone who disagrees with their idyllic illusion of HubPages.
Our economy was fine and going gangbusters too, right before it fell off a cliff. There, we had ignored all the early warning signals and labeled the message bearers complainers and malcontents.
We all know better. We all feel it. The Hub Challenge has changed us because of all the reasons above, and more.
It is good that some hubbers spoke out and voiced their very valid concerns. It is unfortunate but good that some left to show their disdain for the mess that was created by the Hub Challenge.
It is good because it made others of us sit up, open our eyes, and take note. It is good because it will hopefully also make the HubPages administration sit up, open their eyes, and take note.
What is special about HubPages is not that it is a revenue sharing site - Those are a dime a dozen on the internet.
What is special about HubPages is its community. If the community fails, so will the business.
Very thoughtful hub. I actually arrived at HubPages because I read about the HubChallenge elsewhere. I didn't get drawn in because I was still basically clueless about the whole Hubbing thing then. I think that it will be a shame if the whole ethos of Hubpages has changed forever and the community spirit is lost.
You perfectly summed up the whole sad mess, Shiba. I might have been able to forgive those who started it if we hadn't lost Goldentoad, one of the most original minds on HubPages - or anywhere else. My heart has been broken and, as you are aware, I don't need any more problems in that area :-(.
Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, because I apparently joined the Hubpages community in the wake of this turmoil ( my word selection,"turmoil," should solidify my stance on the Hub Challenge question entirely). The reason in which I joined HP was to share my writing and to get feedback on it. However desperate I may be as with most people in the midst of this DEPRESSION, I really don't care whether or not I get paid for posting a hub or how many "clicks" or "hits" I get. I love what I do too much to care about such things. Money is only an added incentive in addition to the invaluable support I receive.
Wise and well put! :)
Great Hub, Shiba - the aftereffects of the challenge are still reverberating. I have noticed that the forums are in sad decline, and they were one of the best things about Hubpages. The community is the underlying bedrock of Hubpages - without it, it is just another site.
Don't know if this can be fixed - there seems to be little will to do so :(
Very well put, shibashake. I did not take part in the challenge for reasons you have so eloquently covered. For me, the effect was that people did not read what I was writing and it became more difficult to find other peoples writing worth reading. And for those people who were putting out good work as part of the challenge - and there were some - there was so much of it that it was impossible to keep up. I think that many like me greatly reduced my writing here during the challenge, and in the meanwhile, found other places to write and other ways to occupy our time. And then after the challenge, things did not return to normal. I, for one, have lost a sizeable portion of readers, and so, I contribute less to HubPages than ever before. I find that more and more, participating in HubPages saddens and depresses me. Nobody needs that.
Excellent article. Thanks for writing it!
Shiba, this hub said it all. The hub challenge was, I feel, the biggest mistake HubPages could dream up. We lost some of the best hubbers, friends, fans, there is. The challenge, and I do agree with Christoph as well, it was near impossible to 'hubjack' our favorites to comment due to the 'spam' that was created as a result of the challenge. Some of the results of the challenge, produced well written hubs, then, at times, I would happen upon a hubpage full of product placements which were an obvious ploy to 'link to' and buy. I was so discouraged, to hub at all. Like many, lost interest in participating altogether.
What's worse, we lost some great friends here because of it. Sadness. A cloud now hangs here. So unfortunate.
Fantastic article.
As others have said - well put! well said! That sense of camaraderie and helpfulness was what originally drew me to hub pages after trying some of the other sites. I came in just be fore the hub challenge and even a newbie as myself could see the dramatic change it made....
Recently, a forum asked about the satisfaction we all had with hubpages and I pointed out a few of these items as potential problems with the future of hubpages and was roundly denounced by an old timer - I won't be back to the forums to give my opinion again...
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I think, I hope it is not too late to turn things around because we still have a nice group of people here. I think HubPages admin should organize some cooperative events though, to help things along.
Things like the HubNuggets and HubMob were both really good ideas that helped to make the community stronger. I hope that they will come up with more of these soon and help heal the rift caused by the Challenge.
@Gypsy - Sadly, I think it is more than just a bad memory. It has created a different tone to the community that still has not healed. Hopefully, we can still turn things around.
@CMHypno - Thanks for your very interesting perspective. You bring up a good point which is that the Hub Challenge did create some publicity for HubPages and it helped bring in some cool new members such as yourself. Still though, I think you came into a very different HubPages than what it was before. Hopefully we can get it back.
@Mindfield - Yeah I miss GT's writing and participation as well. I also miss Pest, LM, Iphigenia, and many others who have significantly cut down their participation on HubPages or have left altogether. I still hope that we can turn things around and perhaps some of them will return.
I agree -- this is an excellent overview of what happened, and why. You have indeed described it well. I think these things follow cycles, though, and that community will grow back; however, like everyone else, I am saddened that we have lost some good friends and great writers in the process.
We didn't even consider the HubChallenge - both of us are very time challenged. It has taken us about 18 months to product our 30-something Hubs!
We like the Hub community. Members have given us helpful answers to questions, and some good suggestions.
It appears that the comments we received did decrease during the Challenge, but they seem to be picking up again.
The quality of those we consider 'top rate' Hubbers is undiminished. Don't want to name them because of fear of missing out/offending. Some of them have already left comments above this one.
Our hope is that those good quality Hubbers will buoy up the community, and help it back to what it was a few months ago.
Thanks for a thought provoking hub.
@dohn121 - Glad you joined HubPages. It is always good to have more people who love the art of writing. Hopefully some of those who left will come back coz they had some really great content that I think we are all missing today.
@Tom - Thank you :)
@Sufi - "Don't know if this can be fixed - there seems to be little will to do so"
I think it can - in fact, I'll bet that Ryan, Paul, Maddie and others are working on some brilliant plans to get things going in the right direction again - right guys? ;)
@CR - "And then after the challenge, things did not return to normal."
Yeah I have been thinking about that some lately. I think we need some fun, cooperative, community building activities that will get people interested in participating again. There are some good ideas in Cialdini's book, and that could be a good place to start in terms of idea generation.
"I find that more and more, participating in HubPages saddens and depresses me"
Yeah I have felt the same way. It seems like the Challenge drove away a lot of the free-thinkers ...
Very well written and now, thanks to your wonderful article Shib> I have finally gleaned a benefit from the hub challenge = I fanned each who expressed my initial feelings concerning the "let's all crank out 'whatever' and focus only on the money aspect". Some folks to get to know - looking forward to that!
Hope you don't leave - you are an excellent writer; was chagrined when I finally wanted to read some of GoldenToad's hubs; and now essentially unfan anyone who simply blows up my email box with less than original or worthy content. It can be ALL GOOD - because hp will continue to be, for the most part, what we want it to be. As G|M said, "it's just like life" :)
@AIDY - "What's worse, we lost some great friends here because of it."
Yeah I think that is the saddest part. I think something should have been done sooner to combat the bad after-effects of the Hub Challenge. I think it is still not too late though. Hopefully HubPages admin will take note and take some steps soon.
@Nannyjoat - Yeah I know some of that. Recently I commented on a hub about a similar topic and my comment got censored. I was a bit surprised since I always try to use positive or neutral language, even in disagreement - ah well. Live and learn :) I hope you will still contribute to the Forums. As Sufi mentioned, its been kindda dead there lately and we need more people like you participating :)
@Teresa - " I think these things follow cycles, though, and that community will grow back"
I definitely hope so :) Still, I think it will be good if HubPages admin helped that process along so that we do not lose any more good writers and friends.
@2patricias - "Our hope is that those good quality Hubbers will buoy up the community, and help it back to what it was a few months ago"
Ah an optimist :) I like that. I too am hoping for a recovery soon, but I think we need some active action to stem more good quality hubbers from leaving. Some have already left, and I think that more are thinking of leaving ... which ultimately can feed on itself.
Very nicely put, I actually signed up for hubpages to take part in the challenge, but soon found how much I was enjoying writing.
I had tried to do the 100 hubs in 30 days and ending up producing some bad quality hubs I didn't enjoy writing, after a lot of thinking I decided it would be better to break the writing commitment I had started then write more bad quality hubs, and in my period of time ending with 29 hubs. Lately I've gone back and rewritting and made a lot of them better, and now that I'm no longer stressing over this am very happy as a member here.
I think your right about the affects it had on here, and enjoyed reading your hub! ^_^
Very well stated, and thanks voicing this particular viewpoint. I refused to invest in the Hub Challenge because I like to write for the fun of it and to improve. Being rushed into X number of hubs per day to beat or meet that challenge wears ones enthusiasm down. Therefore, I silently declined and continue to write at my own pace for pure pleasure…
Thank you for expressing this so well. When I was contacted about it at first, it was 30 in 30 days. I felt internal pressure to go for it because I was new and thought this would be a way to get in the "in crowd." However, since I was spending 8 hours on each Hub, I knew I didn't have the time for it without compromising my work.
Then I got a notice that it was 100 in thirty days! I knew the only way I could do that was to put out lower quality, quickly done work, about easier topics, such as "how to make a peanut butter sandwich."
Anyway, as noted by others, people I had fanned started filling my inbox with all kinds of nonsense—and I read it all! I had fanned them after all—a commitment. And I noticed right away that people who had been reading and commenting on my Hubs had disappeared.
LOL I did not take part of it, but i don't really understand all the hype about bashing it. It definitely suited a big chunk of HP population. Those who joined and found out it was not their piece of bread, learned the lesson. Those who did not got some free time for other tasks.
It's all in the eyes of a beholder, you know :)
Oh, and it definitely did not affect the earnings of those that did not join, Internet just does not work this way :)
@SEM Pro - "It can be ALL GOOD - because hp will continue to be, for the most part, what we want it to be."
That is a very good saying. I really like it :)
I think that is what many of us strive to do - try to make HP into a better place that we would all enjoy. Certainly, it is not possible to please every one. However, I truly think that the Hub Challenge threw things in the community out of whack because it greatly favored certain attributes over others, and now I think that the community is out of balance because of that change.
If we leave it alone, I suppose natural forces will create a new equilibrium and those that do not like that new equilibrium can leave. I think we can do better. And so I am doing my part and speaking out for a vision of the HubPages community that I have seen and would like to see again :)
@Cam Anju - Thank you Cam. And congrats again on your Hub Score! :)
@Nancy's Niche - You bring up a really good point. I think all of us have very different expectations of HubPages. Like you, I also write for my own enjoyment. The HubPages community is also a very important part of HP for me. I enjoy it for the fun interactions I get to have in my hubs as well as sometimes, in the Forums. I don't think the hub writing or traffic aspect has changed much, but I certainly think that the community aspect has taken a downturn. But perhaps there are different expectations of that as well.
I thought it was OK. I joined in, because I thought it was an interesting idea, and would help get me off my arse and write more hubs.
I didn't, though, write bad-quality hubs I wouldn't have written anyway (I hope not, at least!)
I didn't feel pressure put on me to join in, nor did I mind that I only wrote 15 instead of 30.
@James - You bring up a really good point. I think part of the change caused by the Hub Challenge is to alter the balance within the community - so that there is a change in the type of topics that people are interested in as well. I think that is pretty evident especially when you look at the Forums.
I suppose that is what some people are saying that there are cycles to the HubPages community - and sometimes one groups gains ascendancy, and so on. Still, I truly miss some of those wacky topics and wacky hubs.
@Misha -
"It definitely suited a big chunk of HP population"
I am not so sure about that. As I said in the hub I think it was a great idea for the internet marketers. I suppose if that is the only key demographic that HubPages wants to cultivate, then they have achieved their goals with the Hub Challenge. My opinion is that it will hurt them in the long run. If there is no unique community, then there is no membership loyalty.
"i don't really understand all the hype about bashing it"
My intent is really not to do any bashing. The hub was an interesting thought exercise for me, to understand what are some of the key issues that caused the disruptions and changes in the community that we have experienced. And I think it is clear that there has been a change in the HubPages community.
I think it is good to voice our concerns, talk about what has changed, and what it could mean for the future of HubPages. If enough of us want a change then it will happen. Staying silent never changed anything.
"Oh, and it definitely did not affect the earnings of those that did not join, Internet just does not work this way :)"
I don't think that anybody is saying that it did. I think what people are concerned about is what it did to the community.
Hi LG - I think the Hub Challenge probably affected each individual differently. As a whole though, I truly think that it weakened community bonds and shifted the balance and priorities of the community towards something that is less than what it was before.
Thought provoking hub shiba. I didn't take part in the Challenge and I wasn't writing much then either...but I think it's a cyclical phase...sometimes one has things to say and at others the mind is blank. It may not have had anything to do with the Challenge at all!
Shiba,
I started to write a long response, but deleted it. It is the same old story as we had with Bollywood picture hubs. You guys can't grasp for some reason that Hubpages are NOT just for writers. It is for EVERYBODY. And this is the beauty of this site, and the very foundation of its unique community. Don't worry about community, people come and go, and community evolves. Just have fun and let others have it, even when you can't share in their fun :)
Thanks for this hub Shibashake.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
I thought that the challenge was a hoax the first time I heard about it, but I was wrong.
If you took part, I hope that it was worthwhile for you, and that you're seeing some cash returns for your work.
It's all about the numbers of hubs now. 400,000 I believe.
I looked at a sampling of hubs from the recently published list, and would rate most of them as very ordinary.
I'll be publishing some test hubs under a different userid that will be SEO optimised about topics that will maximise adsense earnings. I understand now that that's the way to go.
And if that's financially worthwile, I'll do heaps more of them.
I drop in to the forums here from time to time, but rarely take part because of the empty vessels who hang out there just making noise, and the trolls who just take pleasure in stirring people up.
So Misha, if this is the community "evolving" and having "fun", then I guess I'm just a silly old fart who won't move with the times.
cheers, Eric G.
My 3-year old niece just saw your dog and she just said "cute dog!" Seriously though, the first time I read about the Hub Challenge, the hubber obviously liked that challenge and had just produced the 100 hubs. I was about to embark on my own Hubchallenge (I'll keep it to myself) when I read your hub. Your hub shows me that there's another side to this challenge and something that should be seriously considered. Although I wasn't here before the challenge and I didn't really experience the effects you mentioned, I can't deny that these are realistic and not just a figment of anyone's imagination. The saddest part for me is the division it caused in the community but I'm sure in time, this can be healed. Thanks for the hub.
I didn't see half of the things that you said the Challenge contributed. Guess I just missed it. I definitely didn't see Us and Them or an unhealthy competitive environment. It wasn't a competition between hubbers but a competition with oneself.
Eric, I won't pick the bait. :)
I grew tired of such kind of a debate with Bollywood pics battles, and came to the conclusion that if some people understand "live and let live" differently than me, or don't want to follow it - I can't really help it. Life presents us with all sorts of things, and this is us who pick what things to interact with, and how to interact with them. :)
@FP - "it's a cyclical phase...sometimes one has things to say and at others the mind is blank. It may not have had anything to do with the Challenge at all!"
I think you are right - sometimes that is definitely the case. However, I think that the Hub Challenge has changed things in the community by creating a greater emphasis on internet marketing type activities and similarly de-emphasizing community building practices.
@Misha - "You guys can't grasp for some reason that Hubpages are NOT just for writers. It is for EVERYBODY."
I like that Misha and I agree with you 100% on this. HubPages should be for everybody and because there is this variety, it makes the environment a lot more interesting. Personally, I have nothing against the internet marketers or the picture hub members. I think that making money online is great, and would not complain if I made a few bucks on the side myself :)
The Hub Challenge, however, unbalanced the different groups within the HubPages community so that now, a much greater emphasis is placed on internet marketing activities. There is nothing inherently right or wrong with that, but as I pointed out in the hub, internet marketers are not very interested in community building activities. They are less likely to read each other's hubs, don't interact much in the Forums, and mostly focus on writing hubs that can bring them clicks.
Having internet marketers around is a good thing, but if they become the primary group of people around, without the balance provided by the other groups, then I think it will make for a weaker, less interesting and less vibrant community. I think we can see some of that already happening.
In addition, the same thing that happened at Squidoo in terms of Google rankings may also then happen on HubPages if only a certain class of hubs are generated.
Perfectly analysed Shibashake. The hub challenge left me feeling like a very small dinghy bobbing around in the wake of a fleet of ocean liners. Nobody would want to sail on my little boat when all these big ships were setting out, sounding their fog horns for all they were worth! I have noticed a difference in the feel of the Hubpages community since the challenge, but I'm hopeful that things will eventually get back to normal. As Misha said earlier, people come and go, and community evolves.
@Eric -
"I'll be publishing some test hubs under a different userid that will be SEO optimised about topics that will maximise adsense earnings. I understand now that that's the way to go."
lol - yeah I was thinking of doing the same thing but was unable to get truly motivated behind it. I guess I will have to continue living in my tent by the garbage dump :)
@emievil - Hahaha, tell your niece thank you from me and my dogs. Both of them really like being the center of attention and will often go through a lot to be noticed. :D
As for the Hub Challenge, I do want to say that not everyone feels the way that I do as you can see from some of the comments and also from other hubs. Still, it is through discussion that we get closer to the real truth :)
@Whitney05 - I think that the Hub Challenge affected each individual differently. Even in the social psychology tests cited by Cialdini, they never got 100% of results going one way or another. Nevertheless, when considering a large enough group, their results are predictive of group behavior.
I think there is a marked difference to the tenor of the HubPages community. This is what has caused many of leave, and others to significantly reduce their participation on HubPages. I miss those hubbers very much - their humor, wit, and insights.
Hello Amanda,
Love your comment. I'll help you row your dinghy, its probably more comfortable than my tent by the garbage dump :)
"I have noticed a difference in the feel of the Hubpages community since the challenge, but I'm hopeful that things will eventually get back to normal."
Me too, but I think that HubPages admin can help the recovery along so that we do not lose more interesting writers, artists, and self-expressionists. Rather than continuing to emphasize money and number of hubs, perhaps they could also start to encourage cooperative writing as well as fun and rewarding group activities that will help jump start the community.
*Just in case they are listening* :)
You have a very reasoned argument Shiba. I also noticed you read Robert Cialdini, he's pretty sharp when it comes to deconstructing how people act in groups. Misha, I can see part of Shiba's point. You're both right in a way, Hubpages means different things to different people and Hubpages is also a community. That has several consequences.
First, let me say that I, personally, didn't pay too much attention to the Challenge. I've always felt that you have to work at your own pace to produce quality work. I don't know about the rest of you, but the guys in my subconscious that do the real work can be pretty unreliable at times. Other times, they nail the subject right on the head. I think all writers work for those moments of perfection.
One thing I notice you didn't talk about Shiba is the fact that many people tend to judge themseves by what others think and say. This manefests itself as consitency as you and Cialdini point out. That's why, I think, people took things personally and left the community.
Now I have an admission to make, I am an Internet marketer. But, unlike some, I believe that you can only really make money due to the value of your relationships with people, not just the amount of relationships you have. Kind of like hubs. I'd rather have a few quality hubs that reflect my thoughts the best than hundreds of hubs I dashed off in an afternoon and think about brushing up "later".
Just from what I've read so far, I'd say the Challenge was a bad idea. Steven Covey of 7 Habits fame recounted a story in which a car salesman he was consulting with held a contest where the salesman who sold the most cars in a month won a vacation to Hawaii. This had the effect of causing his salesforce to basically cut each other up in order to win the prize.
The owners of Hubpages did the same thing I think. They focused on getting more hubs completed, but didn't take into account the effect it would have on the community. Had the community been stronger or there been mores about how hubbers treat one another, I think the damage would have been minimized. I'd say that the community is in a sort of adolescent stage, trying to find out what it is, and wasn't really strong enough yet to deal with the total cutthroat environment of pure competition.
That being said, the recent problems will work themselves over time and I think most people have learned from the experience. Overall this will strengthen the community and give us all a litte more insight on how to treat one another.
I tried the hubpage challenge but after I took a step back and looked at the hubs I was cranking out I Decided not to continue.And I wish toad would have stuck around too.
Robert Cialdini ROCKS!
It's almost been a mantra for me to encourage people to read his book, "Influence: the Psychology of Persuasion".
@Bill Yon;
Yes, Toad is sorely missed by many. He and many of the others who used to take part here are still writing, and very happy.
Hello LDT, You bring up some great points as usual.
"The owners of Hubpages did the same thing I think. They focused on getting more hubs completed, but didn't take into account the effect it would have on the community."
You are probably right. The other possibility is that they foresaw it and still went ahead anyway because they wanted to cultivate a different community. Whichever the case, I think they prefer the new HubPages given the general lack of will to make any changes ... ah well.
"That being said, the recent problems will work themselves over time and I think most people have learned from the experience. Overall this will strengthen the community and give us all a litte more insight on how to treat one another."
I hope so - In the meantime no harm in spreading out the eggs into more baskets :)
Hope for the best, plan for the worst. :)
"Robert Cialdini ROCKS!"
lol - I agree, but also very scary at the same time. Social psychologists can rule the World if they wanted to and maybe they already are.
And GT, Pest, LM and all of rest ROCK as well. Glad to hear they are doing well.
NP, and thanks! :)
Hi Shiba-- I agree with your sentiments and appreciate the psycho-social analysis. Well done.
Personally, I felt adrift during the challenge. The rhythm and flow of HP was off. It seemed pointless to publish in the face of such a tsunami of other hubs. It was difficult to focus and find places to "land" for a relaxing evening of hubjacking.
I distinctly remember wondering -- many times -- "When is this thing gonna be over again?" And then it was. Pft. And as stated by several people above, we have not regained our equilibrium completely.
On the plus side, there is an influx of talented and enthusiastic new hubbers who have come aboard. So the exact mix of people has changed, but that's not a bad thing. We have lost some luminaries. I try not to dwell on the losses, but stay in the now. My two cents. MM
It's illuminating to see the psychology behind the reactions to the Hub Challenge. I couldn't quite work out why I didn't like it - this has helped explain it.
You and Misha are both right - HubPages is a place that can accommodate many different kinds of people, who are here for many different reasons. What the HubChallenge did was upset our quiet coexistence.
Now the Challenge is over, I feel as though the nature of HubPages has somehow changed. The forums are full of vocal non-Hubbers (or very new Hubbers) who treat the forums more like a social networking site - as if HubPages were all about the forums, and Hubs just an optional extra. Whereas what I liked about the forums before, was that mostly we talked about writerly stuff.
When I first joined, I recall HubPages members were complaining about the "culture" changing - of course, I don't know what it was like before. I suppose it's inevitable as the site evolves.
I hadn't considered Hub-shock, for lack of a better term. So many hubs were being created that even if quality didn't suffer, the sheer volume was enough to create anomie. Sometimes quantity doesn't have a quality all its own.
I am new to this site (less than a month) and I had read so much about this Hub Challenge and I was a little disappointed that I had missed it. However, after reading this hub, maybe I should count myself lucky. I have also learned that sheer quantity will do nothing for your hub score or your earnings. My score has risen almost 10 points since I started being active in the community and participating in the Weekly HubMob.
Well I say you do need this .. Challenges like this .. everyonce in a while . Atleast it was useful in understanding that it would nt work ! :) its easy to do postmorterm when one is dead ..But to experiment when One is alive ..takes guts ..( some amount of stupidity too )..but really stupid ..is being not experimental
How many people actually completed this Hub Challenge? How many of you actually wrote 100 Hubs? Ok, 50? 30?, 20?, Less?
Hm, I thought so. I didn't get involved despite the fact that I make my living from the Internet, but knowing Internet Marketers, they are generally a bunch that like to talk the talk but rarely walk the walk. I wouldn't mind betting that the number of people who actually completed that challenge can be counted on one hand!
Shiba - a big rock you've thrown :) Nicely aimed and all that.
I just ignored it all. Like a lot of folk. I knew some big hub tsunami was coming so I just bought a rather big umbrella.
I agree with a lot of what you said - especially regarding the community feel of this site. But - that doesn't detract either from the fact that this site is simply a business. Set up to make money. For the ones that own it. Nuff said.
Well written once again Shiba. Maybe it's about time I wrote something less nonsensical and a lot nearer to sensible ... but then again ...
Shiba. Well said. You truly milked this topic thoroughly. This topic saturated our minds involved our hearts, ruffled feathers with a robot vs. artist mentality. This is a community and we do like the people.
Shibashake, brilliant analysis! What makes Hubpages a great site is that we have a choice how to use it, when to use it and how much to use it.
The Hubpages challenge was by choice, of course, but many felt pressured to conform. Maybe if another challenge is issued, more people will feel that they have a choice to decline, thanks to your hub.
You said it perfectly. What makes the hubpages great is the fact that we can write are thoughts with--relaxed ease and fun. The pressure that the challenge put on the best of them showed quickly---
@MM - "We have lost some luminaries. I try not to dwell on the losses, but stay in the now."
That is some very good advice :) I will try to follow it as well. Still, it is tough sometimes to visit the Forums and see the stark difference ...
@Marisa -
""culture" changing ... I suppose it's inevitable as the site evolves."
I agree. I suppose that is probably why the people who have been here since the beginning are more used to it, and less concerned. I am somewhat disappointed that HubPages admin is not taking some active steps to get the community going again. But it is their site - so Shiba should stop complaining and go work on her site :)
@LDT - Another great point! Similar to moving into a large city from a small town - social alienation.
@NYMiskovic - Welcome to HubPages :) Yeah the HubMob can be a lot of fun and so is the HubNuggets. Those are two great cooperative, community building activities that I think the HubPages Team did a great job on.
@Myriad - That is true, hindsight is 20/20, and new experiences provide a great learning experience. However, looking before you leap is also good advice :) In all things, there must be balance, and I think the Hub Challenge unbalanced the HubPages community. I wrote this hub because it was a really interesting thought experiment for me. I also hope that someone on the HubPages Team may see it, and maybe consider putting out some new challenges that focus on cooperation and community building. This will help to counter the effects of the other Challenge.
@honestway - You bring up another good point. I think that many hubbers experienced burn-out from the Challenge.
@FD - You! I haven't seen you in days and days. I was beginning to really miss your frog smell :) Are you mixing marmalade with vodka again? That is a bad combination!
"But - that doesn't detract either from the fact that this site is simply a business."
Yes, I think you are right. This is slowly penetrating into my thick skull :) One thing this has taught me is to start paying a bit more attention to my own sites - so I am going to start working on that. It will be a fun project too and will give me lots of new things to write about. Every cloud has a silver lining :)
@Raven King - "This topic saturated our minds involved our hearts, ruffled feathers with a robot vs. artist mentality."
I really like what you said. The community and the artistry of writing is often a very personal thing that many of us are very passionate about. I think that is why many have left and more are thinking of leaving.
@Aya - "What makes Hubpages a great site is that we have a choice how to use it, when to use it and how much to use it. "
I agree. What the Hub Challenge and the aftermath of it has taught me is not to overly invest in any one site.
@Ginn Navarre - "What makes the hubpages great is the fact that we can write are thoughts with--relaxed ease and fun."
I think so too. I just recently celebrated my 1st year on HubPages and still have not hit the 100 hubs mark. However, I sure did have some fun :D
O wise one, you deserve a thousand candy bars for writing this article!
"people who do not stick to their guns are often viewed as weak minded and untrustworthy" Grr! Where is Cialdini? ... Just kidding!
However, that is thought provoking indeed! I guess YOUR message there is to play by ear, right? Quite sensible.
We are discussing the hub challenge are we not? Well I heard of it rather late as I do not get updates from admin. I wonder why. I just happened to click on a link which led me to a hub which discussed the topic. However the best thing about it was that not participating will not disqualify a hubber from continuing to be one!
Cheers!
PS
I voted the first time I came here, number 4 it was.
Thanks for this thoughtful Hub - I wasn't fully aware how much trouble the challenge caused. I certainly wouldn't join the challenge as I have a day job and write/earn for pleasure only. I quite like the Misha view - HubPages is a complex community and we need to live and let live and not dictate to one another. Writing to order does not seem sensible to me and numerical growth for its own sake is never a good thing!
Excellent analysis! I'm still smarting from the valuable lessons I learned when I joined in the hubchallenge and quickly found myself in too deep of water swimming with sharks. I found that if I had to take the joy out of writing the best hubs (every hub) I could in order to write them quickly or shorten them -- then I would surely drown.
It did change the community, but I suspect things will right themselves again with the passage of time.
Thanks for this. I share your sentiment entirely...
Shiba, my dear, you hit the nail right on the head. You're so smart ;) Everything you said was correct. I was nodding my head saying 'yup. yup.' as I read. Sometimes, it's hard to explain to others, but it is different. You put it all to words perfectly.
There are hundreds of new hubbers everyday, thank god. I don't remember any golden age before the hub challenge. I remember plenty of egotism, rudeness, indifference, bland glad-handing, irrational non-sense and the rare flash of genuine humor, same as now. Your illusory community will be entirely replaced by another equally illusory community in a month.
Have a nice day.
There is a new Hub Challenge starting July 24th. Well, this is it then, for me.
'Hmm, this is new. The Home of the new, ongoing 30 day 30 Hubs Challenge.'
LOL! - There is another Hub Challenge. Ah well - Cie la vie.
Thank you very much for the link AIDY. This will give me a good push to spread my writing around and build up my own site. If any of you find a fun place to hang-out for the social side, please let me know, I would love to join in.
Thank you all for your comments and support on this matter.
Shib, I agree with you totally and basically predicted what would happen with that hub I wrote a few days into the challenge called When Hubweeds invade my Hubpatch. It definitely hasn't gone back to normal after the challenge, and has, maybe luckily, killed my hubpages addiction. I'm finding that since the challenge the quality of hubs hasn't been the same, the forum discussions have been lame, it's like swine flu has hit the community. What I'd like to know, is what happened to Ryan's hubchallenge? I understand he hurt his arm and needed an op, but you can still type with the other hand.
Shiba - I was on holiday. A week away. Internet was limited and sporadic and vague and at best, worse than useless :)
Like you - own websites etc may be helpful, once (I guess) you've gained a little hubability (as you have) or covered yourself in slime ( as I have) and etc. I actually have a site somewhere. Though I keep it quiet as I like to write slanderous posts.
In fact I think I'll pop off and write one about you. Though completely gossip/slander free of course :)
Well Shiba, I have to say that this new hubchallenge disappointed me quite a bit. I did hope that HP management would consider your group voice. They didn't, and this definitely will lead to a less diverse and less interesting community here...
Another example of HP's disenfranchisement of writers who are here for any other reason than to increase the HP coffers. They paid no attention to what happened because of the last one, and now they are doing another immediately to rub salt in the wounds. It's their right, of course, and any writer is free to do as he or she wants as well, but say goodbye to art. Not the place I started writing at nearly one year ago. (Sigh)
Many of these writers who don't write here for money help the site in numerous ways. They entertain the troops. They provide examples of good writing or interesting ways of viewing things. They bring other writers into the site. The homey feel of HubPages has turned into a free clinic.
I believe I know exactly why HP is taking this "increase the numbers" route, and you have not even begun to see how crappy this place is going to get.
I agree with Misha - I have no problem with them having another challenge, if that is what they want to do. However, I would like to see, as you quite rightly say, something for the non-marketers.
Not just because of my personal reasons for being on Hubpages - Any company that expands quickly, whilst neglecting its core values and loyal base, is potentially creating future problems.
EDIT - What Christoph said :D
Sufi, I am wondering whether this change in policy may be a harbinger of other changes. Is it possible that Hubpages may be about to be sold and that there will be new management?
Wonderful article. I didn't follow the challenge a lot but did notice a distinct fall off of fun, most of which I watched and read from the sidelines. Haven't had my account long enough yet to comment on the difference in traffic.
I am the opposite to what you described. I came to make money but very soon realized that I loved putting hubs together and trying to make each one better than the last and improve my writing and presentation. The community still seems really great to me, but smaller than when I first opened the account.
What you've described is a sad state of affairs.
Who knows, Aya? I sincerely hope that you are wrong. :(
Sufi, I'm hoping I'm wrong, too. I kind of like it here...
Ha,ha.
I will agree the current challenge is silly.
I guess it did affect everyone differently. Just don't see how a few of your points were affected by the challenge. I think some were on the brink to begin with.
I think we should have a challenge as to updating current hubs to make them better. Show an average start traffic, and after changes an average end traffic after a specified period. Get people improving their existing hubs not make more average or below average ones.
Someone should bring up the Squidoo incident in regards to traffic and search engines on the forums here.
Whitney, I'm not familiar with the Squidoo incident. What happened?
Aya - I think you may be onto something. Ratchet up marketing income just before selling out to some group that will be impressed by higher volume earnings.
Why does all this remind me of Undercover Lawyer's expos? on HR Reps? (Hostile Work Environment - Why HR Doesn't Care About You)
@FD - LOL - You lucky frog. I need a holiday too. I'll come visit you - I already know you live - next to one of those statues! :)
I agree with you all. I think they should do something to reward the people who do community building as well as start more activities that encourage that side of HubPages. I also like Whitney's idea.
But, is doesn't look like HP admin is looking to cultivate the community ... I think Aya may be on the right track.
@Aya - As far as I know, what happened with Squidoo is that they started producing a lot of lower quality hubs, and Google decided that they are not to be a trusted source anymore. As a result, their rankings got significantly lowered. If something like that happened on HubPages a lot of people will leave - especially the internet marketers. Then HubPages will be just another online writing site, like all the others. But I suppose if they manage to sell before that happens, then it doesn't matter much what happens afterwards.
Shibashake, you mean, it won't matter to them if they manage to sell before that! It still might matter to us. If any of us are left...
lol yeah - as ledefensetech would say - the little people always get screwed.
I think the problem is that many of us, including me, probably feel a bit betrayed because we think that the HubPages team is partly on our side, but as with all businesses they are only on the side of making money for themselves.
In some ways this is probably a smaller reflection of what happened more largely with the economy and the subsequent collapse.
One really important lesson that I learned is not to overly invest in any one external site. It is best to focus most of your energies in building up your own site and just use the others for backlinking.
Having joined HubPages in the midst of the Challenge, I had no idea of the ramifications upon the community. I can certainly see that an emphasis on quantity rather than quality would be terrible over the long term. I can only hope that something good is able to be salvaged from the wreckage you describe. I can only hope that I am a worthy addition to the community despite the timing.
I know I am in the minority in the posting here but I joined HubPages as a place to publish my articles not to make friends. However, I have made some great aquaintances here and it has become more of a social community. But, first and foremost it is a place for me to write. That is why I don't mind the challenges; they motivate me to write. I have said again and again and again and have been ignored, but there have always been a lot weeds on Hubpages (it is not worse now that it was before the 100 hub challenge) but that the good stuff does choke those weeds out.
I can understand your concerns but you have to consider the views of the people who want to improve their writing by writing.
And to add more :) I should say I did no where near 100 hubs during the last challenge. I did 21 in fact. For me that was a lot more than I had over done in 30 days. I don't think my quality was effected. Most people knew when they are over extended and in my opinion the high quality hubbers before the challenge published high quality hubs during the challenge.
During the LAST hub challenge, I found a few hubs that still had quality. I found more that did not even make sense. Also the lack readership on each other’s hubs took a serious toll. Many good hubs did not get any views as they were lost in the pile. I did a small hub on the effects I was feeling during the challenge, but your hub is a wonderful look at it from another perspective.
I sympathise with everyone's angst and understand it to some extent, because I do agree the first Hub Challenge was a pain - it overwhelmed the forums and Hubtivity so the fun went out of it for a while. However, I do think this second Challenge looks to be better handled. For one thing, they've created a separate sub-forum for it, which you can ignore if you don't want to be in it. For another, Darkside is leading it and if you read his "Tips" post, he's taking a very "no pressure" line, not like the previous gung ho approach.
The other thing we all have to remember is that HubPages is, first and foremost, a revenue-sharing articles site. HubPages makes no revenue from Hubbers reading each others' Hubs. Those who choose to use it as a writers' social networking site are welcome but they are not and have never been HP's primary customers. It is a business after all.
This site was unique because of the caliber of writers and what you could learn from them in the field of writing. Also the interesting and very readable content was like reading a magazine for free. Wonder what it will be like in 12 months?
Hmmm. Interesting. It sounds like the admins aren't really taking their contributors comments into account. Still this is the sort of self regulation of the market that I get blasted for talking about. If Hubpages continues pursuing policies in which the best of its contributors find distasteful and they don't wish to participate, their ranking instead on increasing in Google, will decrease instead. This affects us all. Whether we're here for income from Adsense, writing for personal pleasure, trying to get the word out or, yes even internet marketing; all of our endeavors will suffer from that sort of downgrade.
From what I've read so far, which is only indicative of people's opinions against the challenges, it would seem that the administrators have the create content stuff down, but don't seem to realize that is has to be relevant, quality content. It will be interesting to see which companies get it an which don't. It should be a warning to us all not to put our eggs in one basket.
There will be sites that do the right thing and strike the correct balance between search engine rankings and appeasing their authors, it remains to be seen if Hubpages will be one of those.
@Paper Moon - Loved with you did with the story-telling - very creative and unique. What software did you use to create the video?
For anyone else who wants to check out Paper Moon's excellent take on the Hub Challenge -
"The other thing we all have to remember is that HubPages is, first and foremost, a revenue-sharing articles site."
I think that this whole thing has really made me understand this one fact. Overall I think they could have done a better PR job -
1. Not do another Hub Challenge so soon after all the bad fallout from the first one.
2. At least try to get some input from the community on how they can improve it, *before* launching it a second time.
3. Organizing other activities to help with community building as well so that they do not alienate other parts of their membership.
In any case it will be interesting to see what happens. In the meantime, it was fun while it lasted and perhaps it will be fun again ... Best not to take these things too personally - just take what a site has to offer and leave when it does not offer you those things anymore.
See you all on the other side! I will still be around but won't be participating as much. I think HubPages can still be very useful especially when promoting articles on how to make money online - lol. That is probably what I will use it for and also for generating some backlinks.
I'm new to HubPages, so I missed out on this whole Hub Challenge fiasco. I honestly think everyone on HubPages is out to make money, whether a lot or a little. If not, why bother registering here? Why not make a blog or join a message board? But once people get greedy, everything turns ugly.
Ah you can’t kill the machine. It’s a terminator out to destroy anything in its way!
I hope people understood they are made to be the real tools, the real slaves out in the hot field while the Masta drinks lemonade on the porch with a whip on his side. They don’t love ya, they only want to use you for their own greed.
I find it to be a fundamentally sad situation to become a whore for them, for anyone for that matter who needs a pimp. Need money, go recycle some cans, or start a babysitting business and I guarantee you’ll make more than this place. Ah too smart for that? Whip out some idiotic hubs with a bunch of keywords, if that satisfies you-- I can only imagine how pathetic life must be for anyone in that state. Oh my god! 7 pennies a day, how fantastic!
I find words to be beautiful creatures of expression. I am happy to be off this place, this place of BUSINESS.
I know for one, I wouldn’t sell my individuality for all the donuts in the world.
Shut-up you’re talking out of line! You don’t know this business and things will always return to normal around here, we makes sure of that. What is normal? Normal is anything in the box. See the invisible lines shrinking around you. It makes sense to be normal, it makes adsense. Pretty soon we will not need these free employees with their own thoughts, pretty soon a new Masta will take over and there will be copycat articles all over the place and any individual voice you had will be gone. You will have wasted it if it meant something to you. Better keep your eyes straight ahead of you boy, don’t be startin’ no trouble.
But how do I save them from wasting their words? How do I tell them don’t put your heart into it, the masta don’t see anyone as important, it only wants the fields to be worked, get that stock value up.
Don’t try to be original, don’t expend your creativity if you got it. Don’t waste your energy on a relationship that ends in heartbreak. He don’t love ya baby, he never did, he just wanted some tail from ya. Emptiness awaits everyone who don’t see it coming.
If you are a writer, or believe yourself to be one, if you got a heart, don’t bring it here to this place. Like any place of business, feelings are a waste. Just fill out the paperwork with a phony smile, take your break every two hours, feel your brain being zapped and brought down to a mundane and stupid level. Any idiot can do your job, that’s what the boss will tell ya…and in this case it will be true.
A community appreciates involvement. A cult just does what they’re told without thinking about it.
Yes, Masta, more lemonade? Yes Masta I will get to squeezing!
You may be some dumb dude but I want to marry you! What a brilliant take on it all - brilliant and precise and true.
Shibashake, what I'm struggling to understand is why everyone seems to think that if you're writing to earn money, then you're somehow less worthy than writers who write "for art's sake". I, for one, am beginning to feel a tad insulted by that.
The Hubbers who write rubbish for these challenges won't last. True, their Hubs will sit on HubPages, but they won't be found by search engines and their scores will sink to the bottom so they won't feature anywhere.
@- Marisa, There are money hubs and then there are money hubs. Nothing wrong with that.
@ some dumb dude, Don't be dippin in Massa's lemonade either. LOL
Shiba, put it together with microsoft movie maker. A freebie! I use a few other programs for clips, music and animations, also freebies.
@Marisa -
"Shibashake, what I'm struggling to understand is why everyone seems to think that if you're writing to earn money, then you're somehow less worthy than writers who write "for art's sake""
Hello Marisa - I really do not think anyone is saying that at all. Personally, I don't mind making money on the side, and actually have fun with some of the SEO stuff.
I think the question is not so much whether you are interested in making money but rather how far you will go to make money. How much are you willing to sacrifice to make a few pennies? dollars? hundreds of dollars?
I believe that all of us have a different line in the sand in terms of what we are willing to do for money. My general unhappiness with the Hub Challenge and with HP admin over this is that they seem to be cultivating those people with a lower bar.
By lower bar I do not just mean poor quality of writing, but willing to do whatever to earn a buck including steal pictures, steal content, and write short information free articles that are only targeted at getting people to click.
As UW says, there will always be such people around, but the community culture of a site determines which type of people make up the bulk of the membership. HP seems to want to cultivate more of the will do anything to make money people ...
I think we already see its effects in the Forums and I imagine there are also effects in the hubs generated and comments.
As more and more of these will-do-anything people join, there will be less and less of the others.
I read an article recently where somebody was attacking Hal, specifically his 1000 hubs can't make money post. According to the article Hal is just clueless because to make money you need to write about skin care products, blah, blah, and cancer.
This I think, really captures what I mean ...
@dumb dude - LOL - We all miss ya! Can I join your cult? I will call you Masta and bring you da lemonade :)
A funny thing happened while waiting out the original hub challenge... I concentrated on posting on my blog instead of HP and upping the readership. Surprise...I'm making more Adsense $$ via the blog than I ever did on HP.
Another Hub challenge? I was only partially out of here before. Soon as I figure out where to move my hubs before new HP ownership takes over and says I can't move 'em, I'll be totally out of here. You'd be surprised at how many GREAT writers' sites are popping up that are what HP *used* to be. No surprise that some of them were founded by HP ex-pats...
"You'd be surprised at how many GREAT writers' sites are popping up that are what HP *used* to be. No surprise that some of them were founded by HP ex-pats..."
Jama, that is a really great idea. I would love to get a list of where some of these ex-pats have gone. You should write a hub about it :)
And now, people are signing up for the new challenge, so management didn't learn anything from the old challenge. That can only be because they do not care about the community. No, let me rephrase that. They only care about a segment of the community - the guys that write for money. The rest of us, they don't give a toss. They know that we'll just bitch and complain and probably still hang around because we enjoy writing.
I too arrived before this. One of my client's invited me to be a fan...I signed up and because I like writing and sharing ideas about a range of topics, and I could also market some of my products and monetize it - don't think I'll get rich on Adsense - so I started writing hubs.
Nothing happened for a month until I asked about the
support for newbies and that's when the hub 'community' responded. Suddenly I could get some feedback, support and some dialogue. I felt 'part' of something then and had a sense of belonging to the group...not just writing to try and sell stuff or to amuse myself.
I appreciate the 'creative curiosity' that Hub offers . That's worth more to me...'art for art sake,or money for god sake'?
I did not enjoy the changes in the community here that I adore during the challenge and now I hear there is another one.
Hubpages may be needing to replace some lost income streams. First hubbers in certain states have lost the ability to use Amazon. And now it appears that Ebay income will be lost sitewide. My Amazon revenue is far greater than my adsense. Ryan stated that he is focusing on adsense revenue during the challenge. They may be trying to insulate their revenue streams, from the probability that more and more states will be implementing an internet sales tax, and thus more and more hubbers will be losing Amazon revenue. If you can't show stable revenue channels, it's hard to sell a company - or make payroll.
Jama, Shiba, I keep copies of my best, most researched, most profitable, and favorite hubs. You just never know when you'll have to be elsewhere. Although, I don't plan on going anywhere. In case something bad happens to HP and all data is lost (or whatever), I'll at least be able to easily have my content moved elsewhere (pics and amazon will have to be a little more work, but at least content is saved).
It's also agreed to focus more on your own sites and blogs, but sometimes you need the extra help with backlinks, as mentioned. I'd love to be able to get the same traffic on my own site as I do with HP.
"They know that we'll just bitch and complain and probably still hang around because we enjoy writing." ~~[Cindy]
:D True up to a point. As Whitney says, HubPages does help in terms of bringing in traffic. However, I will be starting to slowly move some of my articles over to my home-site. I have finally figured out how to transfer HubPages comments into Wordpress - YAY.
With regards to making money, I truly understand that HubPages is a business and they must do what they must do. Personally, I think they could have struck a better balance and not alienate so many people, but maybe I do not know all the details.
And Whitney also makes a great point in that HubPages is still a good place to help generate traffic and backlinks. However from now on, I will focus more on my own sites and hopefully be able to grow my traffic there. I know I will probably take a hit in the short-term, but I feel it is worth it in the long-run for greater control.
I absolutely agree with you! I didn't participate and the whole matter was marathonic for me where I was running from a hub to another to read and leave a comment! Hubs were raining all over the place, so, during this month, I stopped writing bcz I knew that no one has time to read my topic.
U have said it all. Couldnt have agreed with you more. The comments reduced, traffic reduced on my own hubs...although it has increased now. I think its time people understand that when you put unnecessary pressure on yourself you do harm yourself alot. Thank God i was never part of this idea.
I couldn't have said it better myself! I sadly lost "contact" with many of my HP friends because they've had so many other articles to read, they've had no time to leave comments like before. Nor have I. I couldn't keep up and haven't had time to try. I miss my HP friends. Where have they gone since the Hub Challenge? This is sad. Great hub Shibashake!
Wow, I can't believe I missed all this drama! I never even considered trying to do the Hub Challenge since I just don't work that way. I like to create my content at my own pace. However, after reading your Hub, I am glad I stayed away.
I agree 100% that one should never put all of their eggs in one basket. That is why I have blogs, Hubs and lenses. They all work together to create my income. I will say, though, that the income earned on my self-hosted blogs kicks a$$ over the income I earn on Hubpages & Squidoo combined. If that is the case, why do I still create hubs and lenses you may ask? We'll, because hubs & lenses also play an important role in my money making plans, it is called diversification. ;)
Thank you all for dropping by. At least we all learned some valuable lessons from all this :)
"I will say, though, that the income earned on my self-hosted blogs kicks a$$ over the income I earn on Hubpages & Squidoo combined."
That is very good to hear Janet. I must definitely go check out your blogs. You should write a hub or lens about this - I am sure lots of people would be interested in hearing more :)
First i didn't have the time to write, then i didn't feel right about writing based on a challenge, now i know i was not alone about the whole thing. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Thanks for dropping by IslandVoice.
I did learn a lot from HubPages, but I think Janet and many of other people have it right when they say that diversification is key. Having your own site is great too because you have a lot more control over it :)
If a whopping 54% on Your poll of Hubbers feel the hub challenge was a BAD idea and the rest are divided into the don't know/don't care/good crowd...that HAS to tell the people who run and manage this place Something Loud and Clear.
Yes! We lost a great many GREAT hubbers because of it. I wrote my own blurb about it (not that anyone read it)...but yours is being read ans I am so Glad for that! My hub on it is here - http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Hubpages-Challenge
and MY Poll gave a whopping 72% who felt it was a BAD IDEA!!
Maybe they will learn something about Quality vs. Quantity.
Maybe they will learn what the vast majority of people who hub feel about this place and what it is FOR...which is Not to pump out meaningless drivel as fast as possible.
Or not...people - businesses - governments - none of them seem to tend to learn from their mistakes/errors/blunders...etc.
Best regards and Kudos on a Great Hub!
Melanie
OH and did I say KUDOS! GREAT JOB!!!
Gypsy Willow Level 5 Commenter 2 years ago
Nicely summed up, Shibashake. It was a big negative disturbance and generated lots of substandard hubs. Glad it has fizzled out and is just a bad memory